Morphing analog polysynth concept (Updated: Rev 5.3)
Note: this is a design concept of mine and not an official new synthesizer model from the Behringer brand
♥ Vote to help making this come true
POSITRON 16 is an analog polyphonic synthesizer concept that focus on morphing, featuring continuously variable waveforms, filter modes, arpeggiator patterns and more.
The POSITRON 16 is a true player’s synth with plenty of hands-on controls, from the three wheels, the Morpher joystick and a fullwidth ribbon controller to a polyphonic aftertouch keyboard, macro controls, dual pedal inputs and even a CV antenna socket. This will make sure you are always in control of your sounds and performances even during improvisations, and the 76 intuitive LED-collar encoders with push button function make creative sound programming a breeze.
Dual classic VCOs
The POSITRON 16 have two analog oscillators per voice, with 5 waveforms continuously variable between sine, triangle, saw, square and tone mod. The oscillators are classic 3340 VCOs, with a warm but powerful sound.
Each VCO has dedicated controls for pitch (set to either semitones or unquantized), pulse width of the square and tone mod waves with optional PWM, pitch modulation (either unipolar or bipolar) and a 5-octave range switch.
Twin fully-featured classic analog oscillators
Oscillator settings – page 1
Oscillator settings – page 2
Common oscillator settings
In addition to the 2 VCOs, there’s also a dedicated Detune control for immediate fatness, soft and hard oscillator sync, a very musical Ring modulator with its own modulation LFO and an easy-to-use FM control for more complex wave shapes. A Mod link button for connecting the Pitch mod controls for the VCOs complete the section.
Signal source mixer
The two oscillator outputs go to the 5-channel signal source Mixer, for balancing levels and routing them to either or both of the filter channels – or bypass them all together.
Flexible and intuitive signal mixer
Mixer settings
A powerful Sub oscillator is available with adjustable sub octave and either sine, triangle or square waves, for adding additional depth to your sounds.
Pink or white noise can also be mixed in with the other signals and routed in the same way, as well as an external audio in for running stereo sources through the filters, amp and effects.
By pressing the white Edit button, you get additional options like Channel overload, Filter channel bypass and Sub oscillator waveform.
Twin filter channels
The 5 mixer sources can be routed to either or both of the fully-featured filter channels, each with its own multimode filter circuit.
Channel A is built around the powerful Behringer Moffatt solid state filter, with filter modes morphing from lowpass to bandpass/notch and high pass. A highly visible red cutoff encoder makes sure you will always know where to adjust the filter, and resonance, envelope and LFO mod controls completes the section.
Channel B is identical to A but has a 3320 multimode filter instead of the Moffatt, for a nice vintage sound.
Two powerful multi-mode filters
Moffatt filter settings
Common filter settings
In between the two filter channels you’ll find the global filter controls, with a Cutoff Link button and an Offset encoder for convenient control of both filters at once. Next comes the routing encoder that let you morph from parallel to serial in endless ways, and a filter output amount control with built-in overdrive allows you to mix between the dry and the filtered signals. Envelope and LFO mod link buttons are also available, for easier tweaking.
Amp and effects
The two filters are routed to the Amplifier, where you can set the stereo spread and/or pan of your sound as well as adjust the overall level. The POSITRON’s twin oscillators and filter channels together with the stereo amp gives you a true stereo audio path with full 16-voice polyphony.
Next in the audio chain are the 4 Multi effect engines by TC Electronic and Klark Teknik, offering reverb, delay, chorus, phaser, flanger, overdrive, compression, EQ, amp simulation and more. The engines can be combined in a number of ways, including serial and parallel routings (or combinations of both), as well as feedback configurations for effects like shimmer reverbs and more.
Stereo placement and effects for those final touches
Amplifier settings
Each effect engine has its own dedicated Select button so that you can quickly tweak its send/mix level and the main effect parameter, with the more complex settings available on-screen by pressing the white Edit button.
Clicking on the Send/Mix knob will instantly bypass all effects, if you quickly want to listen to the dry sound. You can also choose to have all effects bypassed by default for all patches, which might be useful during studio recordings.
Effects setting – Overview page
Effect block settings – Plate reverb (PCM-70)
Load and save Effects templates
Effect chains can also be saved as Templates, to be reused in other patches for quick and easy editing. This allows you to quickly import that reverb or chorus to the new patch you’re working on.
Morpher joystick
The powerful Morpher section, with its LED-collar joystick, allows you to completely change your sound by the movement of the joystick. Multiple values can be controlled by each axis for quick and easy sound design on the fly. The movement of the joystick can also be recorded into an XYZ-envelope, with an optional loop-feature, for wavetable-like effects.
Incredibly powerful sound morphing effects
Morpher settings – Page 1
Morpher settings – XYZ-envelope
Envelopes
The POSITRON 16 has 4 high-range envelopes, one each for pitch, filter and amp modulation as well as an extra mod envelope. Each envelope comes with 5 stages – delay, attack, decay, sustain and release – as well as a loop option for LFO-like effects, all the way up to audio rates.
4 envelopes for full control
Envelope settings – Filter envelope
The frontpanel has two identical sets of envelope controls to allow for tweaking two at-the-time, and 4 selector buttons for assigning any of the envelopes to either set of controls for full flexibility.
Of course, any of the envelopes can be used to modulate any of the myriad of mod destinations by using the powerful modulation matrix.
LFOs
Below the envelope section can you find the 4 powerful LFOs, each with rates from 30 second cycles all the way up to audio rate. The LFOs feature 6 continuously variable waveforms, including sine, triangle, square and sample & hold, and a shaper control let you further tweak the selected wave shape by adjusting its pulse width, symmetry or smoothness respectively.
The LFO rates can be synced to internal or external clock, and each LFO can be set as monophonic or polyphonic for anything from vintage polysynth behaviour to complex phase-shifting effects – especially useful for modulating the stereo field.
4 powerful LFOs per voice
LFO settings
The arpeggiator
The onboard arpeggiator is very flexible and creative, and features stepless morphing between arp patterns, gate length, note density and randomize controls for endless variations of the selected pattern. The range can be set from 1 octave all the way up to full keyboard-width, and the tempo can be set to master clock or as adjustable beats like 1/4, 1/16, 3/8 and more.
Creative arpeggiator features
Arpeggiator settings – Custom pattern with sequencer-like control
There’s also a very creative Custom-mode, where you can define your own patterns with full control over note order, rhythm and velocity offsets. Think of it as a mix between an arpeggiator and a step sequencer, with the best of both worlds.
Using the graphical display, you can easily see and edit even very complex patterns with ease, making this a performer’s dream.
Step sequencer
The built-in 16-step sequencer is an easy-to-use but powerful tool, allowing you to create anything from simple looping sequences to key-triggered transposable musical phrases. The sequencer also features motion control, for recording and playing back parameter changes in sync with the music.
Easy-to-use analog-style 16-step sequencer
Extensive sequencer settings for full control
The Chromatic Mode screen with 12 probability values
There are 8 dedicated LED-collar encoders, so that you can always see what’s going on, and enable, tweak or mute steps in real-time for creative performances.
An additional Chromatic Mode converts the sequencer into an intuitive and creative playground for new and unexpected sequences. Each of the 12 first steps represent a note on the chromatic scale, and their values the probability that the note will be played – from 0 (off) to full (always played). The last 4 steps control the range, resolution and overall note length.
Panel morphing
One of the most powerful features on the POSITRON 16 is the Panel section, with its intuitive Panel morph function. Each program patch consists of an upper and a lower set of values for all of the front panel’s continuous controls, and the Panel morph encoder allows you to seamlessly morph between them. This can create anything from subtle effects to drastically different sounds – all from a single control.
Extremely powerful panel morph or keyboard span features
Panel settings
The 2 panel sets can be configured in layers for morphing from one set to the other or as spans across the keyboard for sounds that change from the lower end of the keyboard to the upper. Using Panel morph together with the Morpher joystick allows you to create sounds of incredible complexity that are still simple to control – all while keeping the synth’s full 16-voice polyphony.
“It really is a very promising concept – I hope it will see the light of day.”
(in French)Synth Food
Voices
The POSITRON features 16 fully-analog synth voices, with an optional Unison mode for stacking 2, 4 or more voices to create very powerful sounds.
The Voice detune encoder controls the amount of pitch detune between voices, which in combination with the Unison mode easily creates incredibly fat and wide sounds.
16 fully-analog stereo voices
Voices settings – Page 1
Voices settings – Page 2
The Drift control will make parameters like pitch, filter cutoff, envelope times and LFO rate vary over time, between key presses and/or across the keyboard. This can add a vintage feel to your sounds or – turned all the way up – create the effect of a neglected old synth in desperate need of a tune-up.
Modulation modulation modulation
The powerful 16-slot modulation matrix features an extensive list of sources and destinations. You can use any of the many controls as sources, like keyboard velocity, polyphonic aftertouch, ribbon controller, joystick, wheels, macro control encoders as well as external sources like CV/gate inputs, pedals and the CV antenna. Add to that all the internal mod signal generators like envelopes, LFOs, sequencer or even unison voice numbers and you have a large set of sources to use for shaping your sound.
Destinations are too numerous to list, but include all the usual suspects like oscillator pitch, filter cutoff and resonance, LFO speed and amp levels as well as control over each envelope stage’s rate/level/curve, arpeggiator note density and randomization, filter routing, effect settings and more. There is also a set of math functions for processing or combining any signals with things like addition, multiplication, division, slew, limit etc.
The workflow for setting up the modulations has been streamlined so it won’t stop your creative flow. When you want to modulate something just hit the Mod matrix button, select a slot and move or activate the source you want to use, then select a destination by clicking the relevant encoder and turn it to set the amount. That’s it – back to making music!
More esoteric things like the math functions or features without dedicated frontpanel controls have hot keys for finding them in the lists of sources and destinations. This makes it easy to jump to the relevant function quickly without having to scroll through hundreds of options.
Each slot can also be muted by pressing the Mute hot key, or soloed by long-pressing that same button. This is great for isolating modulation paths when you’re fine-tuning amounts or trying to figure out what’s going on.
For every slot there’s also a Depth Controller that affects the amount of modulation – great for using one of the mod wheels for determining how much an envelope should affect the FM amount, for instance.
Patch browsing
The POSITRON 16 features 8 banks each containing 128 patches, for a total of 1024 local patches. The banks are available via dedicated buttons, with a set of numeric keys for patch selection within the active bank. This makes it very easy to quickly jump from one patch to another, without any need to scroll or step through hundreds of patches to get to the right one.
8 banks of 128 patches immediately available via dedicated buttons
Default screen view with patch browsing and snapshots of the envelopes
Patch randomization settings
The default display view shows the current patch name in large letters for easy reading, and a list of the adjacent patches in the selected bank. Each of the 4 envelopes and the Morpher XYZ-envelope are also shown for a birds-eye view of the main modulation.
Patches can be tagged with Categories like Lead, Pad, FX, Clav etc, and added to a Favourites list for easy recall. You can also quickly browse for patches with similar settings using the Similar soft button.
An Init button lets you start with a blank patch, and the Randomize button provides some interesting tweaks to the current patch for instant inspiration.
Connectivity
The POSITRON 16 comes fully equipped to connect to your existing (and future) gear. The backpanel holds sockets for MIDI of both classic 5-pin DIN and modern USB variety, and the dual stereo audio outputs are balanced for the best signal quality. Stereo audio in will let you run any of your other instruments or other sound sources through the POSITRON and take advantage of its powerful filters and multi effects.
Each and every one of the frontpanel controls are of course controllable via MIDI CCs, for full remote access.
Apart from MIDI, there are also classic CV/gate sockets for connecting to vintage synths or modular systems, and a clock in/out will let you sync with your drum machine or analog sequencer. Each of the 4 macro controls also has its own CV output, for tweaking connected modular gear and more.
The twin pedal inputs accept both expression and switch pedals for maximal flexibility, and last but not least there is a BNC connector for attaching an optional analog antenna for Theremin-like effects.
Multi-timbral mode
POSITRON 16 features a 4-part multi-timbral mode, that allows you to play and access up to 4 different patches simultaneously on separate MIDI channels. Each part can be assigned to either of the 2 stereo outputs, with its own level and pan settings. The main out has the 4 effects engines available, for global effects.
The whole setup can be stored as a Multi patch with all its settings for immediate recall, and with its own dedicated MIDI channel for changing Multis from a DAW or external hardware sequencer.
Voice allocation across parts can be either dynamic or fixed, for maximum flexibility, and each patch still has its own panel morphing available.
Keyboard and controls
The POSITRON 16 comes with a semi-weighted 5-octave full-size keyboard with attack and release velocity as well as both polyphonic and channel aftertouch. Any aspect of keyboard playing can be used as a modulation source, including which key you hit – or how many.
Above the keybed sits a full-width ribbon controller with LED-indicators for each key. It can be used in a number of ways for sweeps, bends or vibratos, or even Ondes Martenot-style playing where the pitch is set by the ribbon’s contact position and the gate and volume by pressing any key.
Polyphonic aftertouch 5-octave keyboard and a full-width ribbon controller
Ribbon controller settings
To the left of the instrument we have the 3 wheels – one spring-loaded for pitch bend and two free-running for modulation. Of course, any of the wheels can be used as modulation sources in the powerful Mod matrix.
To the far left you’ll find the 4 powerful macro control encoders, that allows you to control just about any number of parameters with a single twist. This gives you the ability to completely change your sound in a very controlled way – perfect for stage or studio performances.
Octave buttons let you transpose the keyboard up or down for an impressive 85-note range and a Portamento encoder sets the glide time between legato notes. A global volume control with a mute-function completes the section.
From concept to reality
As mentioned above, the POSITRON 16 is a concept design. It’s based on my own ideas of the optimal analog polysynth and a lot of constructive feedback from online communities, especially the official Behringer Synthesizer and Drums group on Facebook.
How can we make this synth go from concept to reality? I have discussed my design with Uli Behringer and he’s been appreciative and cautiously optimistic, but in the end it would rely on enough people wanting to buy a POSITRON 16 for it to make business sense.
So please vote in the poll below. My hope is that enough of you find this synth interesting for Behringer to start its development and then take it into production.
Thank you!
From the more than 500 poll comments:
1-20
“What a interesting and wonderful design. Instant buy.”
“Mi piace molto l’idea di morphing,un bel synth dalle potenzialita incredibili,se fa bene quello che dite lo compro al volo”
I really like the idea of morphing, a nice synth with incredible potential, if it does what you say well I buy it on the fly
“please not wooden!! and in black please!!”
“I will definitely buy it and make it my synth of a lifetime.”
“1000 USD I’ll get it”
“Many a slip ‘twixt the cup and the lip but..yes, this would be amazing.”
“Oh, yeah. I’d buy that in a minute (regardless of price). That would be an incredible synth; maybe the best analog ever made. I think Uli should make it and you should be the executive designer of the project. Count me in.”
“This looks great, but I think the VCOs and second filter should be new designs with their own distinctive sound to set the instrument apart as its own beast. I am however aware of development costs, manufacturing limitations and so on.”
“would love a touché expression controller”
“a desktop or rack version would be nice”
“I think another polysynth design that takes advantage of the poly aftertouch and ribbon R&D that Behringer are currently working on and taking it further than their CS-80 reproduction is a great idea. The controls and UI look inviting and logically laid out. It’ll be interesting to see the material and retail costs of such a beast.”
“MIDI Implementation has to be perfect. Like Sequential does. 14bit for every parameter/every knob. I would definitely get one!”
“indeed, the best looking synth ever! So modern… and that display centred… YES, quite impressive!”
“module version with MPE(+) please! Love the BNC antenna connector and led knob. Also would consider, if the effects are, as I imagine, digital, an integrated audio soundcard sending audio via usb.”
“A big thumbs up when Behringer decides to make a real original piece of art instead of cloning classics. This would mean a positive boost for public opinion.”
“I’d buy it as soon as it comes out!”
“I would buy it tomorrow. Very exciting and well-thought synth, kudos. But get rid of the wood panels and have them in thick brushed white aluminum. And, don’t compromise on features or number of voices.”
“Multitimbral please”
“Yes, but not under the Behringer brand. As a Behringer, I won’t buy it, as a Heinakroon or whatever I’m willing to pay 3x as much as for a Behringer built version.”
“This is what I am looking for in a poly. The program sounds exciting. As a EE, I would be interested in getting involved in its development!”
21-40
“Wowowowowo, a USB host please!”
“looks ugly”
“Competitive pricing please”
“This synth would definitely be the center piece of my music studio!!”
“I want 16 polyphonic lfos please”
“I’m in the market for an analog poly and this looks amazing”
“Original design is always appealing!”
“Hopefully Beringer will make it affordable. The Prophet 6 is still out of the price point for a individual trying to put together as well.”
“Could be really competitive synth on the market and simply looks awesome. Let’s hope that it will also have a good quality keyboard. “
“My wallets already to go.. yes please”
“The concept video with sound was very well done. I hope that this synth can be an affordable, reliable and fantastic reality.”
“As soon possible”
“Looks and sounds like an amazing idea. Would love for it become a physical item.”
“Would buy. Don’t sacrfice any features esp the cv/gate panel in the back.”
“Yes please for original design poly synth. I would really hope for lfo to have such range as in Behringer Neutron. It simply rocks!”
“Yeah !! Stop cloning and innovate like this beautiful project! Thank a lot 🙂”
“Blue color like PPG please ;-)”
“Woah antenna theremin option!!”
“Now this looks like a really interesting synth, I would definitely purchase one.”
“as long as its not 3k+ for it”
41-60
“Yes ofc! But even more so i would want a “Positron 8″ with only 8 voices 3-4 octaves keyboard and generally a bit smaller in size. A more minimalisitc approach while keeping the essential features!”
“But made by a real synth company. Not the B copycats.”
“I like the cv connections on the back and the joystick is a very nice element too! Make it Uli, ill buy two!”
“might be expensive to make it seems”
“Compraràa uno con precio competitivo”
Will buy one with competitive price
“I have no words, bar, STUNNING!!”
“I would need to hear more sounds because what i hear could not say others synths can achieve the same results.”
“All new synths should have endless encoders with LEDs. It’s the only same way to know what’s happening when you load a patch.”
“polyphonic, with 8 track sequencer”
“I would buy this in a heartbeat and recommend it to all!”
“3500 and i am pre-ordering one RIGHT THE F NOW”
“It would be great to make this synth real!!!”
“Especially with the poly AT!!”
“Love the design! 😊 Needs full blown midi implementation with nrpn, sysex support. Very high built quality. Would buy absolutely!”
“This looks like a dream come true!”
“Yes and no. I think a scaled version of this would be better as this seems overly complex .”
“No one can beat such amount of AWESOMENESS, I wanted it yesterday”
“The products Behringer has been bringing to the analog synth world are amazing. Would be interested in obtaining this synthesizer if done right”
“It’s like a dream which will be sympathized by synth otaku from new to old, all across the universe!”
“Im in ! If you can add more oscillator”
61-80
“No need for this.”
“Swap drift for Voice Component Modeling (if that is not already possible with the mod matrix, a designated switch that mimicks quirks of vintage synths would be amazing).”
“i will buy it for sure”
“THERE ARE ENOUGH CREATIVE AND POSITIVE THINKING EXPERIMENTERS AND SYNTHESISTS IN THE WORLD FOR ALL SYNTH DREAMS TO BECOME A REALITY. LUCKILY WE HAVE THE ULI’S OF THE WORLD TO THANK FOR MAKING SUCH VISIONS TANGIBLE. ASHLEY R.RIVERS 1ST JUNE 2021”
“This is definitely something I would want in my studio”
“Yes if you add multitimbral at least 4 parts, 8 parts will be nice…(Andromeda had 16 parts)”
“Looks awesome with a ton of sound shaping at your fingertips”
“I encourage Behringer to develop this synth and more original synths rather than copies : )”
“unique ,powerfull, modern, perfect interface…… we buy direct”
“If achieved the results would be amazing innovative and certainly desirable . It would make for a worthy investment”
“Awesome Synth, would be a flagship on the market”
“I got all of the Behringer synths besides the MonoPoly, I’ll be getting all of the coming up synths, but I would really like Behringer to come out with this original design and shut up the haters saying Behringer is just a clone company. #DoItbehringer”
“On principle I’ve never bought anything Behringer. If brought to the market as a high quality and (obviously) unique instrument, it would likely be enough of a redeemer for me to buy.”
“Daaamn, make it real”
“I love the LED halo with the knobs. It is the feature I have been expecting for decades.”
“I especially like the 5 octaves of polyphonic aftertouch and all the LED rings”
“Under $3,000?”
“The Polybrute needs some serious competition :-).”
“only 16 step sequencer? should be at least 128 or 256 – the more the better, same for motion sequencing :>) great design work, hope this works out!!”
“Love this idea. Take my money. Also, please keep the 61-key concept. I don’t care for 32 or 48 key synths.”
81-100
“it’s finally good synth”
“this could be the flagship synth that makes Behringer differend from the other brands, endless possibillities it seems. hope it will sound as good as it looks.”
“Ein tieferes Blau und dunkles Holz.”
A deeper blue and dark wood.
“Very tempting…!”
“I’m waiting for these features for so many years in a modern synth! Especially all these LED-collar encoders and the 3 wheels would be very precious indicators and controllers.”
“I would pay up to 2500 Euro for it – if it sounds really good (as analoauge!) and is intuitively to manage.”
“MANY of the features that i’ve been wishing for. I hope this becomes a reality!”
“Well done! Would buy it instantly!”
“Would like to see at least several more CV inputs and outputs, to be more like the Neutron, which could then be routed via the matrix. Then it would be a no-brainer!!!”
“500 euros please!”
“Everything you need”
“Sexy, wonderful”
“I like the design. It reminds me of Alesis Andromeda”
“Behringer should try and make the next classic synth; fulfill the Alesis Andromeda’s promise.”
“wonderful, quick launch, we want to buy it”
“I would like to get an early bird price”
“The illuminated controllers are a great feature for any synth with presets”
“Awesome design of all the classic features paired with something new could be a real Behringer Flagship”
“Ce serai vraiment magnifique que ce concept devienne réalité, c est sûrement le plus beau et le meilleur concept que j’ ai pu voir .de plus behringer gagnerait à faire preuve d originalité au delà des clones en repoussant les limites”
It will be really magnificent that this concept becomes reality, it is surely the most beautiful and the best concept that I have seen. Moreover, behringer would benefit from showing originality beyond the clones by pushing the limits
“Make this concept designed keyboard a reality! You have my vote and support!”
101-120
“Sounds amazing. I’d spend $2000”
“Freely assignable joystick control is to me a very attractive feature in a synth since I bought the Intellijel Planar eurorack module. Just make sure the joystick has a high quality feel to it, it’s a performance tool just as important as the keybed.”
“this’d be the best poly on the market”
“Hell yeah! I’d love to see Behringer put out more original synths. Neutron is great, and Positron looks like a beast.”
“He look like so Beautiful ! How much should the Positron 16 cost?”
“I want to buy it now!”
“Too traditional design for me and a bit naïve, everything but the kitchen sink in there. I’d say add a 3rd oscillator, a stereo wavefolder/waveshaper/dist unit before or after the mixer/filter, a tuned noise source, drop the fx, add multitimbrality and slim out the step recording design, drop the arpeggiator . If you have morph you can perhaps loose an lfo/envelope pair.”
“Love the design, please Behringer, make it happen”
“TMHO: morphing without digital waveforms (PPG, Prophet VS) is a kind of ‘so so’. Greetings 🙂 Pim Schilperoort”
“CV out switchable for Hz/Volt or Volt/Octave please. Pitch bend / mod joystick NOT wheels. Looks great !! :)”
“Liking the hands on dials physical aspects, and the sonic potential of the morphing filters.”
“For a 16 voice synth I would also like it to be multitimbral, at least bitimbral, with a pair of assignable outputs. Otherwise the design seems great!”
“Polyphonic Aftertouch!!!!!”
“But go to Waldorf instead of Behringer”
“Please please please…😇”
“And Add a third VCO”
“❤️❤️❤️😍”
“Don’t change a thing design wise either,it’s perfect!”
“Looks like a solid competitor to Polybrute and Hydrasynth, two of the best poly-synths today. Great way for Behringer to make it’s own mark on synthesis. This is the original follow-up to Deepmind I’ve wanted to see for years.”
“Ooh baby yeah it looks feckin amazing .please please make it it , agh go on you will agh go on you know you want to l”
121-140
“I would most certainly buy one”
“A gorgeous piece of kit. Definitely made for players.”
“So much yes. Beautiful design”
“Looks it has everything needed and bit more”
“This is mind blowing! Please make this!”
“Take my money”
“I would definitely purchase this. Would like to see a USB audio interface built in.”
“needs cv ins and outs, perhaps a trio in the back for modular connectivity”
“Behringer has accustomed us to great projects that never see the light of day …… or in such a long time that we end up seeing the competition which is more expensive but at the rendezvous … is good but succeeding is better!”
“Behringer’s unique ability to produce affordable synths means that this innovative spec would be available to many more customers than other higher cost brands. And it would silence some of the critics of the brand.”
“Yesterday!”
“Absolutely! A fantastic follow-up to the DeepMind 12!”
“Great Work. 1899 Euro at the behinning.”
“Y buen precio”
And good price
“Great to have such a classy original from Behringer”
“UBERGross!”
“Make it so…just in red or orange”
“Instant buy!”
“World need the new synth every day to save pir future”
“One synth to rule them all. Gimme!”
141-160
“I would 💯 buy this”
“This is a dream, it has to come true!”
“Pots not encoders please”
“I really don’t need another polysynth! Especially as I will inevitably end up buying the behringer pro-600 clone; but for this, I’d sell my deep mind 12d”
“We want more Behringer Originals!”
“Behringer needs to stop flooding the market with inferior designs and stolen technology.”
“THe concept looks bloody awesome!”
“This would be an absolute monster synth, a Behringer flagship synth of their own.”
“Hell yeah! I wanted already! Generally I’m impossibly sad it is just concept….so please Uli – MAKE IT HAPPEN \m/ \m/”
“Morfen zwischen 2 Programm bestimt geile Möglichkeit bittet bei solchen d viele Daten”
Morphing between 2 programs definitely cool possibility asks a lot of data with such
“would be good if it could take user samples too”
“Yes and please add a “song mode” and an extra midi output.”
“The DeepMind12 is a big success why stop now yes jump on it”
“Lot’s of Power.”
“Make it and I will buy it”
“I like the endless encoders with LED rings”
“Impresionante”
Impressive
“Take my money now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
“Guaranteed purchase from me if this is developed”
“This is the real deal. This will place Behringer above everyone and a wonderful chapter will begin.”
161-180
“Looks like it would be a great add to any studio (mine included)”
“Yes, has features the polybrute needed! Ultimate modern analog!”
“I’ll never be able to afford one but I’d be sad if it wasn’t out there, magnificent architecture.”
“Move over UDO!”
“B. O. M. B.”
“Absolutely yes. Uli this would be legendary . Like jupiter juno legendary”
“Ein echt gutes Projekt . Würde ihn kaufen , da er vieles verbindet was man nur bei Modular Systemen findet.”
A really good project. Would buy it because it combines a lot that can only be found in modular systems.
“Depends on price, of course. But I could dig deep for this!”
“The features sound perfect to me. If it’s going to sound really good and have a personal sonic signature, it could become an absolute classic. Of course the price will have to be factored in too. In any case, I’m totally interested.”
“Topp synth”
“very interesting project. On the other hand, the wooden sides, thank you for tinting them and varnishing them a bit. (aesthetics also count for the pleasure of synths)”
“I was wondering when they would come with their polysynth and this looks pretty killer. If this gets made, im buying.”
“Something Fresh, not another existing clone. Please Uli B”
“Definitely a must buy from me”
“A rack version would be great!”
“WE NEED THIS TYPE OF INOVATION”
“I’m a guitar player turned keyboardist. I have a studio logic numa compact 2X and ASM Hydrasynth. If you build this, I’ll buy it…”
“If it costs sub £3k id buy for sure.”
“No more another 808”
“Great konzept! I would buy one”
181-200
“I’d buy this in a heartbeat 🤟”
“Come on!!! ❤️”
“Toutefois conditionné par le prix !”
However conditioned by the price!
“It sounds very promising, but how much can it cost?”
“Keep on the creativity.”
“I hope you get to make this. One favour! A “Panel” switch that completely disengages the current preset as found on the Prophet Five”
“Bitte bitte bitte”
Please, please, please
“This is the Matrix 12’s son I’ve always dreamed of. I hope this beast will be made (and I’ll one day be able to afford it)”
“I would deffo buy one of these!”
“Pour ma part, le projet serait complet avec une application qui permettrait de contrà´ler le synthé à partir d’un DAW du type Poybrute-Connect.”
For my part, the project would be complete with an application which would allow to control the synth from a DAW of the type Poybrute-Connect.
“Ce projet haut de gamme serait complet avec la mise à disposition d’une application dédiée au contrà´le MIDI en stand-alone et à partir d’un DAW à l’instar de POLYBRUTE-CONNECT.”
This high-end project would be complete with the provision of an application dedicated to MIDI control in stand-alone and from a DAW like POLYBRUTE-CONNECT.
“With a 64 step sequencer (or more) please!”
“I will buy two!!!”
“Beautiful concept. But why only two layers. Wish this beast would have a 16x Multitimbral mode. Even it has led rings on nearly any knob….”
“The icing on the cake”
“It just looks super cool. I have been looking for a modern, monster of an analog synth, and this just might be it.”
“This concept sounds amazing and I’m sure the creations made with it will also!!”
“There is a gap in the market for a unique and flexible polysynth. The Arturia PolyBrute almost fits the bill, but 6 voices? Cmon. This concept could be the polysynth market killer. I’d definitely buy one!”
“Would buy one at a right price”
“absolute awesome and posibilities that you see neever before with an analog synth”
201-220
“It’s okay if it’s not Behringer”
“Please Make it affordable!!! Thanks!”
“Behringer has developed so much as a synth company by recreating classics from the past. They need to take what they learned and show the world they can make a truly world-class analog synth for the modern age.”
“Great concept, but One request though ,sliders instead of pots in the envelope section thanks!”
“Brilliant”
“It looks absolutely awesome and love the long ribbon strip, hope this will see the light of day soon (or the darkness of a club while playing it live)”
“More synths please”
“Would love to see this new innovative synth being developed by Behringer”
“This synth would help to establish Behringer as an original and unique synth manufacturer If the price is right I’d buy it in a heart beat.”
“we need this synth! Fernando from Argentina”
“Just need one more vco but a different one and it was great”
“kinda cool, a poly neutron. But how about innovating by maybe adding some west-coast style synthesis like Majella Implexus”
“That’s a flagship synth if I’ve ever seen one!”
“Brilliant design – excellent combination of old school, present-day and future.”
“What’s projected MSRP? Looks great”
“This is an exceptional concept! A beautiful design for a very versatile instrument. I’m deeply impressed.”
“Unique and desirable!”
“Make it an Elka Synthex clone and print money. Make it jupiter 8 clone and earth itself will want to play it”
“Hi! I honestly think this might be a hit because it is not a recreation or clone of an old synth, and even if people (including me) are more than very happy to be able to get these great clones from Behringer, a new sound is always a good idea to get some fresh renewal.;) If you made a desktop version, that would be absolutely great as well. Indeed, I think in that category of buyers, you might find a lot of people already owning a lot of keyboards or controllers, just looking for a new sound without having to think about space. That’s my opinion!;) Congratulations for the great work, and see you soon!:D Good luck!”
“just bought the Arturia Polybrute–you have extended that concept which is far reaching-well done”
221-240
“This covers many bases.”
“Digital oscillators playing Prophet VS, SQ-80 and other transwaves would be a nice addition! Something like VCO1/2, DCO3/4.”
“Need to keep price down.”
“Looks great! Important: A Multi Mode voicing would be much appreciate, right when it comes with 16 voice polyphonic!!”
“Would love it as is but would love it more if it came with 2 more wavetable osc’s, sample and glide lfo’s, ample fixed mod allocations, a 32 point mod matrix, and a 64 step seq with song mode.”
“The concept of the rotary encoders with LED’s is splendid. Also the endless rotary encoders give the option to have decent live tweaking without jumps. And then the macro’s. This looks like a really wonderful idea. Well done. With presets! I would buy!”
“Très encouragent et motivant!”
Very encouraging and motivating!
“Looks class its got a lot going on which is good”
“Add KORG’s digital OSC from Prologue that people develop and you can upload into the synth”
“This is truly a modern polysynth”
“New features in a analogue concept. It is important to create new synths for a growing up electronic scene.”
“Excellent idea , I will buy one”
“Mix Waldorf WAVE + Andromeda A6 + Summit + Prophet 10 + MemoryMoog + CS80. Add salt and spices. And well done! + Jupiter 8 as a starter is good.”
“Do we need one more synth-no,do we want one-yes please”
“We hope that behringer pushes forward some original and modern synths!”
“More than a 16 step sequencer -if you are going to make all that so nice and cheap out on sequencing -that would be the miss of the whole thkng”
“Looks very interesting ! Powerfull, confortable and beautyful !”
“This is what the analog synth world needs to pick up where the legends like the CS-80 and the Jupiter-8 left off. Pseudo analogs were great if you just wanted something close to the sound with modern features. Make this and give the big boys a wake up call.”
“Definitely! I would sell a kidney for it !”
“Oh heck yeah but I thought and added to chat also. Please add CV, Gate, And an LFO and Audio,2-4 + selectable attenuation on the Positron 16 and Desktop Module…please?This message didn’t send. That would be jacksThis message didn’t send. someones going to drill that lovely back panel. it would be a shame to waste all that lovely surface with paint.This message didn’t send. at least match the Craves Jacks and allow it to sync properly.. or offer a blue matching Crave as an optional Modular extension.. that would be something..”
241-260
“It really is a flagship analog synthesizer. It looks stunning too. However, the most important aspect of any musical instrument is it’s sound. This should be on par with the looks of the instrument. If you manage to give it a really fat and warm core sound this would be a no brainer to me.”
“If this could be made for $2000-2500 it will be a legend.”
“Wow ! If the keyboard is as confortable that the best Fatar (Kawai K-5000, etc.) and if the synth’s height is a little bit smaller, it’s for me”
“I have money just waiting on standby to buy this.”
“Already an instabuy, but also offer a non-keyboard desktop/module version, and it becomes a double-secret-probation instabuy.”
“A nice and well thought through idea!”
“but much prettier and not as busy. The hands on controls are wonderful, but look overwhelming!”
“Just please for the love of god make that a 32 step sequencer”
“This is a really nice concept. If it had like 4 parts it would be perfect. Would still get one though.”
“A world beater. Having gone modular (including the Pro-1 in my Eurorack) and otherwise using DAW based synths and virtual sample instruments, the POSITRON 16 is the only keyboard I would buy and feel excited enough to NEED TO BUY! I’m not interested in DSI products (intriguing but way to expensive or ultimately retro) or other brands keyboards (too digital or don’t add enough to my sound palette), however THIS keyboard goes places with the kind of sounds and technology I’m interested in. The Hydra or Uno-6 which seem like good contenders seem/feel way too one trick or specific in their sonic identity. POSITRON 16 for me is the most exciting new keyboard for decades!!!”
“I’m have a Deepmind 12 and I love it. This reminds me of the Deepmind on steroids. Who wouldn’t buy this!”
“Please make the wood as walnut”
“This looks and sounds epic. Very powerful. And original. Much better than making cheap versions of classic synths.”
“It would definitely be a step up move from Behringer. , to collaborate with such an amazing concept! =D”
“It is a incredible synth!!!”
“questo synth, se dovesse suonare per ciò che ho letto e se, sopra tutto non dovesse costare come vendersi un rene, lo comprerò di sicuro, perchè sto cercando un synth analogico di spessore ma, sto aspettando che qualcuno faccia il miracolo.”
this synth, if it sounds like what i read and if, above all, it doesn’t cost like selling a kidney, i will buy it for sure, because i’m looking for a thick analog synth but, i’m waiting for someone to do the miracle.
“Would instantly but this looks super nice, wavetables along the vco’s would be super nice”
“Looks really interesting! I would love to see also an integrated Sampler for Overdub recordings”
“max. 1600 USD”
“The ideas used in this synth are a perfect mix of established ideal features and novel ideas that make this synth desirable. Behringer is known for making synthesizers with great sound and features affordable. I hope they are wise enough to not miss this amazing opportunity to really dominate the high-end synth market!”
261-280
“Yes yes yes, Please push for this, and regardless of the affordable cost, because one day it shall be had by many hands even if not currently”
“Excellent concept, about time someone made a synth like this. Please make this synthesizer!”
“Made by ANYONE but Behringer! Sell it to Dave Smith.”
“Looks great, lots of real time control, it all depends on the cost I suppose.”
“That sounds like one badass original synth!”
“Was gonna buy a vintage OB-8. Ill wait for POSITRON !”
“Please focus on developing groundbreaking new synths like this one!”
“Creative as it gets”
“sample import and it’s finished………”
“Very Awesome! If the (De-) Tuning Components work in a very precise way to make the options even more expressive… For sure a great Synth!”
“This is exactly what Behringer needs to work with.”
“This sounds like the future just like the first wave of synthesizers did at the time.”
“It seams to be a great synthesizer. I hope there will be soon some videos on youtube to hear how it’s sounding. Interested to listen some patches.”
“Price point will be key… but with all the Behringer did with the affordable amazing Deepmind 12…. this should be their next phenomenon. A resounding YES!!!!!”
“Add another set of stereo outputs and make it usb-c”
“Would be a great successor to my Deep Mind!”
“Add polyphonic aftertouch keybed and it would be unstoppable!”
“I would definitely put off buying a bigger synth, just to see if this is going to come about, wishfully it will.”
“Definitely a yes. I’m all for Behringer cloning older, expensive and not in the market synths, but they also should introduce new concepts. Cloning newer stuff like the Arturia Keystep or Plaits also seem so cheap. Behringer should be investing in ideas like this.”
“Owned a DeepMind12 and found it good value but not terribly inspiring. Sounds felt a bit flat and the effects pages were a pain to navigate. It looks like this makes considerable improvements on the usability of the interface, and is a very well thought out instrument. I would love to see a demo of those “thicker” sounds, if it can do those as well.”
281-300
“Jestem otwarty na kreatywność mądrych, zdolnych ludzi. Pozdrawiam Jacek Klimaszewski”
I am open to the creativity of wise, talented people. Regards, Jacek Klimaszewski
“A mix of the best of digital with the best of analog. Best thing to come along since the AN1X.”
“I wish you the best bringing this to the market, much depends on the price, since the market is crowded. Respect! :)”
“Would this be a keyboard only release or could a rack version be achievable?”
“Except the red filter knobs. ;-)”
“This would be a flagship synthesizer for the Behringer brand.”
“How could I not like this beast of a synth??? C’mon Uli and team, go for it!”
“Without a doubt this is a direction I’d like to see Behringer going to. I’d expect this unit would sell in good volume if it is kept ‘reasonable’ in pricing terms. Regards & Best Wishes from ArcAudios ;)”
“So sick. Let’s Make it happen.”
“yes please, it sounds like a great concept!”
“…if less than 4k”
“But everyone want it for 999.99usd”
“Who wouldn’t want this? I’d be all over it!! :-)”
“Très intéressant, peut être avec un 3ème VCO serait un monstre du son!”
Very interesting, maybe with a 3rd VCO would be a sound monster!
“Great idea, would buy one… what about crowdfunding if Behringer doesn’t take it?”
“Of course, who wouldn’t???”
“Highly ambitious, we can hope!”
“This is the best featured synth ever designed that draws on the best of the best- Matrix 12, CS80, Modal, Moog one. Do it FFS.”
“Would be great to create a new classic based on older technologies with modern manufacturing . Accessible to the masses.”
Oh, yeah. I’d buy that in a minute (regardless of price). That would be an incredible synth; maybe the best analog ever made. I think Uli should make it and you should be the executive designer of the project. Count me in. MrKnoch
Thanks! It’s my dream synth – obviously, since I dreamed it up – but I agree that it would be a great flagship synth for Behringer. They’ve got the means to make this without it ending up costing $6000 or more, which would mean more people would be able to get hold of one.
This design looks very similar to the Vermona ’14.
Oh yeah, the colours are quite similar. Hadn’t thought of that. Although the Positron works have more of a grey tone, with less blue.
TBH I need another 3340 synth like I need a bullet in my head. Something else for the oscillator, please! Everything else is, as AudioPilz would say, ticking all the boxes! 🙂
I’m with you on oscillators. I would prefer VCOs like the ones in Prologue. Not necessarily exactly them, but discreet design like them is more in my taste. Or like the ones in Modal 001/002. I speak about how organic they sound. :]
The minilogue has nice sounding VCOs for sure. And if not prohibitively expensive and time-consuming, it would of course be nice with discrete VCO circuits. As I mentioned above (or below, perhaps), I expect this design would change several times before eventually reaching production.
Minilogue oscillators have quite a narrow sound palette IMO (tinny at times), would be happier with 3340s!
Oh no, please. The Logue VCOs sound crappy. I would never buy this synth if it had those Korg VCOs.
Daft comment these are not Korg Vcos. They seem CEM 3340 ,(Curtis Electro Music) . They were used on the Prophet, Sh101, Mc202 and Oberheim , to name but a few. If you remembered the days of discrete VCO instability, you’ll know what a God send these are.
I think that might have been replies to comments that we should have discrete VCOs instead of the 3340 chips. I’ve got no real preference either way, but I know that it would be cheaper and quicker to use ready-bought chips than to develop, test and tweak a custom circuit design, so that’s what I went with. 🙂
I disagree. And am suspecting that you might be overdriving mixer section of your minilogue. Discreet design, if done properly, have sonic advantage, what can be seen in Jupiter 8 vs Super Jupiter comparison.
Thanks for your feedback, and glad you like (most of) the design!
The 3340 chip is a way to reduce development and manufacturing costs (as was its original intention, of course). I’m pretty sure the implementation of the VCO chips determine quite a lot of their sound, as the Behringer Neutron’s 3340s sound quite different from the Prophet ones, or the ones in the OB-Xa or the Jupiter 6, for instance.
Having said that, I’m not married to the 3340s, and if this ever go into development and production who knows what VCOs it will end up with?
Hi Heinakroon,
Can you explain, what does bipolar modulation mean in your design? I imagine that it regards to LFO that can be either unipolar or bipolar. If that is the case, then I suggest that this setting should be chosen at source of modulation. And then leave mod setting as only bipolar.
Also: have you played with Nord Lead 3? I recommend looking at how it allows setting up modulation. It isn’t matrix as most know it, but to setup one modulation routing one should press button corresponding to my modulation source and then I could rotate ANY encoder that could be modulated and I was seeing maximum range for my destination with LED indication. What is even cooler – when I played, I could see how my aftertouch (for example) moved settings at destinations. That was most immersing UI that I ever experience.
I also recommend to look at Modal 001/002/008 for LFO and Envelope parameter. Especially 001/002 lets me make another envelope with single triggering of square wave and LFO delay and release (almost same with 008, but this one has both LFOs only as global/mono, while 001/002 has one like 008 and second LFO is one per voice, tradeoff in 001/002 being small destination amount and less flexibility, oh well…). And 008 has very extensive modulation matrix (I will never forgive ;] them, that they forgot to add VCA envelope as modulation source, therefor I cannot use one envelope for VCF and VCA, having VCF envelope assigned to other duty). Also: 008 has this unique characteristics that mimics old envelopes, where one can move Sustain stage and control signal follows new setting with time constant set by Decay parameter (My Sub 37 also does that). I often use this trick in my 008 to shorten decay and move sustain when I use joystick, therefore I move Sustain stage and the further I move it, the faster control signal follows it. Anyway, I see that setting modulation in 008 was clearly inspired by Lead 3, but without LED rings.
Also: please, think about sequencer programming like either in Modals or keyed Evolvers. With encoders per step at least in sub ranges (like 1-16/17-32/33-48/49-64 etc.). Anyway: sequencer and animator are great in Modal 001/002/008 (I don’t know, how it works in their newer offerings).
I need to add, that I love your design. It is one of better ones. And the Morpher with curves at display and all settings – I would say, this one is killer feature! I am holding my fingers crossed and if you succeed with your design, I am selling few of my instruments to finance this one (unless it gets heavily castrated).
Thank you for your extensive feedback! 🙂 This is what I love about today: instead of a group of engineers and designers sitting isolated trying to come up with useful features, the whole world can be part of the design and development. It’s so easy to miss something that seems obvious in hindsight, so getting lots of feedback on a project in the design stage is invaluable.
Your points on modulation are very good, and I will create a separate section for the modulation workflow, since I somehow seem to have missed that.. 😛
For a dream synth like that I would be ready to pay at least €4K. (If it sounds good). I regret the lack of a third osc and dual layer sounds like on the prophet rev2.
I’m not that interested in morphing between 2 sounds. Given what I Say maybe I should but a Moog One.
The two panel sets can be set up in layer or keyspan mode, so you will effectively have access to two sounds per patch. No need to use the white encoder for morphing – just set the required balance and leave it at that. Or, use velocity or aftertouch to move between the layers – or the keyboard range to go from the lower set to the upper, either gradually or with a hard split.
Not quite the same as running 2 patches at once, but 2 sounds at once would certainly possible. 🙂
Hi. Great design… It looks fantastic (like a dream synth). Try to consider other famous synths in terms of “what features for Positron 16”:
– Sequential OB 6, Sequential Prophet 12, Sequential Pro 3, Novation Summit, UDO Super 6, System 8, Arturia Poly Brute, Prologue 16, Virus TI 2.
I’d evaluate:
– hands on interface: Summit and System 8
– sequencing: Pro 3 and System 8… as well Prophet Rev2
– electronic music sound: Virus TI 2
– oscillators and girth/drive: Sequential synths and Prologue 16
– lushness: UDO Super 6 and Summit
– modulation: Sequential synths and Summit….
Everyone has Pros/Cons regarding whatever synth… in the end you have to consider the price range and your margins too 🙂 In order to be successful – high sale figures – I think the price should be 2100 – 2500 euro… that’s my opinion.
Thank you!
The Positron is inspired by a range of synths, from the minilogue to the Matrixbrute, and basically any user interface feature that would make it easier to be creative.
If it gets picked up by Behringer, we will hope for a ‘good’ price that would fit the wallets of as many musicians as possible. 🙂
It sounded nice, was I blown away? No! Would I buy? I would need to hear something that other synths in whatever its price range could not do.
This synth is just a design concept and does not exist – at least not yet. The soundtrack you heard was a mix of a Neutron and a DeepMind 12. 🙂
huh?
Okay, I love everything people are saying, but I have one huge huge request. Assignable multiple outs. Having outs 3 and 4 for split patches would mean a budget player just starting out would have essentially two 8 voice channels to start programming. Just having that feature with an under $1000 desktop module means dawless techno setups would advance significantly! ❤ ❤
Ah yes. I actually had 2 set of audio outs to begin with when it was still using 2 separate patches for bitimbrality, but removed them when I replaced it with the panel set morphing. Since the morphing is using one patch to make 2 different sounds at once, it wasn’t really possible to split out the sounds to their own output.
But saying that, there’s no technical reason why we couldn’t have both, so that each patch has its own panel morphing AND can be assigned to a different output. My main concern with that is that multitimbrality gets complex very quickly and I have strived to make the Positron as direct and easy to use as possible.
To elaborate on my initial comment: Some of the design choices remind me of my andromeda (good thing).
I second the other/additional VCO mention.
Make it sound special, I have a kijimi which is very different from all the other synths I own and which I adore for it, and IMHO there’s enough bread and butter polys out there, so the VCO decision should (again IMHO) factor that in. Filter of course as well.
Again, fantastic design!
Thank you! Good feedback. 🙂
12 votes against creating this synth?
I bet they work for Dave Smith.
😆
Hi, the idea is great! I would also put a lot of effort into MPE and MPE+ compatibility. There will be more MPE controllers out there in the future. (Looking at you Osmose from Expressive E) Also to take into account with the sequencer is that it should have a post quantization ( to enable or disable)and a near non-quantized input methode. Also considering any length / time signature for crazy things. Sequencer able to record CC movements and so on. The multi output as mentioned in another post is a must for live performing. For example also possibility to have a dry signal out ( without any effect processing ) and the other with the onboard effects. Be it mono or stereo out. There are plenty of things in my mind 😂. Let’s hope you get it manufactured.
Good points on the MPE and sequencing!
The extra audio outs might need to be reintroduced. 🙂
The interface is excellent in most respects. The LED rings give a much needed view of the current patch. Polyphonic aftertouch gives a degree of expression most keyboards lack. 5 octaves is a nice size after too many synths with only 4 or 3. However, the screen on a top end synth has to be colour, as it makes the information so much clearer than monochrome. It would probably be useful to have a set of soft knobs for the screen, to go with the soft buttons. Analog I/O is useful, but gate plus a single CV seems a bit limited. You could have gate, pitch CV and 2 configurable CVs for velocity, aftertouch, ribbon controller or joystick, etc.
Thank you! Yes, I’ve been focusing on the user interface, since that will make or break a synth’s use as a creative tool.
I’ve had suggestions for 5 pairs of CV, one in/out for each of the 5 Macro controls, in addition to the note cv/gate and clock in/outs, which seems like a good idea. 🙂
I love so much about this synth! Of course, if it were to come out as is, it would be one of the most feature-packed synths available.
Some of my favorite features include: sound morphing, of course; Neutron-style continuously variable waveforms; different filter mode options; ribbon controller; polyphonic aftertouch; Theremin antenna attachment option — brilliant; LED-collar encoders — super useful; soft sync option; stereo outputs and inputs — nice; twin filter channels — especially with the stereo spread control; variously routable 4 multi effect engines — DM12 rules; Mod matrix; morpher joystick — got to love a joystick; 4 loopable 5-stage envelopes; literally everything about the LFO section, especially the wave shaper controls; math functions for processing signals — awesome; keyboard release velocity — nice touch; along with all of the more common features.
Features I’d like to see, if at all possible:
1) more CV inputs and outputs: perhaps even at least several more which could be assignable via the matrix.
2) quantizable play-record sequencer option: play, possibly polyphonic, riff, with rests and all, to be looped after recording is stopped.
3) midi control over _all_ parameters via DAW: would turn this synth into a composition beast.
4) wave shaper controls on the oscillators as well?! would add a whole new level of depth for dynamic sound sculpting.
5) user specifiable math functions via synth app: would expand the capabilities of the synth beyond measure for those willing to get deep with it.
6) stereo pathway option: don’t see it mentioned and am not quite sure if it is already doable as is, but a true stereo pathway, possibly even from the oscillators themselves, would send the movement of the sounds in the stereo field straight to the level of top of the line synths, e.g. the Matriarch and the UDO Super 6. Also in Eurorack.
7) endless encoders: so that recalling presets could be done without any issues in regards to the current encoder settings.
I figure, while we’re dreamin’ big and all, I might as well throw in some requests. I’d be interested to know if some of the above features are already doable in the current design. At any rate, an amazing synth design, mate! I’m sure it would sell like hot cakes and become a new, game-changing, soon-to-be-classic synth in the world of synthesizers.
6) *Also _popular_ in Eurorack.
Ooops! ^_^
Thank you for your extensive feedback! 🙂
1) I think I’ll try the suggested 5 extra pairs of CV in/outs – one for each Macro control encoder.
2) The sequencer need some love, that’s true.
3) I plan to have it all accessible via MIDI 🙂
4) Hmm, that would be cool but where to put it? Or rather: what to sacrifice? Ring mod controls? FM knob? It could of course be accessible via the edit screen, but that feels a bit like cheating, if you know what I mean…
5) Ah, math head, are we? 😛 Writing algorithms for signal processing can be daunting, unless there’s a good framework for making it easy and quick. But I guess even just combining existing operations into multi-stage functions would be quite useful.
6) Since the 2 oscillators can be routed to their own filter channels, and the filters can be set up in stereo all the way through the final amp, you can certainly have true stereo paths all the way – with 16-voice polyphony…
7) Yes, the LED-collar encoders. They would be endless and have a click-function for toggling functions for the encoder – like switching between modulation modes, or the BP/notch filters.
Rather than being a shill for Uli Behringer, have the courage to post the comments of those whom do not like this synth or concept. Whilst this is a worthy consideration, if you work with Behringer, you will get burned. I did and it was honestly one of the worst experiences I had.
The initial “collaboration” process was professional and congenial, but once Uli got involved, it was an absolute mess. The man’s reality is worse than his reputation and that is all I will say on the matter.
Yours is the first. I post all comments that are not offensive or threatening.
I’d loose the fx, thin out the matrix (if you have the morph function), loose the arp and perhaps the 4th lfo/env . The step sequencer should be smaller in scope but easier to use, 3-4 tracks, a lot of triggering options and access to the mod matrix. Add a 3rd oscillator, a stereo pair of wavefolders/waveshaper/dist after the mixer and before or after the filter, a tuned noise source instead of traditional noise. And for the love of god MULTITIMBRALITY. I am tired of having to record everything in a computer one sound at a time. It’s been 30years since we could just do it in one pass, plus having to print down early interrupts the workflow and limits the detailed design. You don’t need drift , it is just a catch-phrase if you have vco’s, stereo components (filter, wave processing), morphing and noise sources you are there. Since we are in 2021 and going perhaps thru-zero oscillators or perhaps a mix of analogue/digitalmight be a good idea.
Thanks for the feedback. I realise that a synth cannot be everything for everyone, but I do take feedback seriously.
For sure taste plays a role but the reality is we are flooded with 2 osc polysynths to the point where features are not an issue but rather the traditional signal chains. For that for example Korg’s prologue or even the minilogue series, by adding an “unpredictable” factor with the dsp section can craft out more timbres than synths costing a lot more, even though from a modulation point of view these are not very extensive synths.
The LED-ringed encoders would be a landmark change from the majority of synth control surfaces today. I’m surprised that these haven’t reappeared before now, and equally surprised that everyone just accepts the dominant knob-only model. There’s a fundamental problem with this knob-only model when retrieving and editing stored patches – there’s no easy way to see what the various settings are, without an external on-screen editor program. Or tediously tweaking each knob to it’s “current value” position. I own a Nord Rack 3, and it’s a marvel of UI design – so easy to cycle through patches and see instantly most of what’s going on, except for modulation routings. The Waldorf Quantum/Iridium makes up for this deficiency with an excellent touch-screen and navigation. So, if this does move toward reality, please please try to keep the LED rings and encoders! I never understood the fascination with PE-editions of DSI gear vs encoders – except that it does yield a WYSIWYG interface just once, when live programming a patch from scratch (but never again after saving the patch).
Yes, that’s been my view also. We’ve had the technical solution for knobs vs patch storage for decades now, but people are traditionalists, I guess. 😛
The LED-collar encoders is a core part of my design, so that would be something I’d fight very hard for keeping.
If there is a chance, a desktop version of Positron would be nice, as I already have enough MIDI-enabled keybeds.
Heads up for this beautifully designed synth concept! 🙂
Thank you! Yes, I suppose a desktop version would be technically possible, with some limitations to the frontpanel user interface. I cannot say if it would be financially viable to produce though.
Uli pretends to care about public opinion then gloms onto an idea from somebody who already works for Behringer. I’m surprised ppl fall for this! Uli is the Trump of the music gear industry, all hype, no substance, and a legion of fools who blindly follow.
I do not work for Behringer or Music Tribe, and I never have.
I believe it’s always good to do some fact checking before so firmly stating ones views.
The Positron-16 is so insanely close to everything I’ve ever wished for in a synth, I’m beginning to suspect you are a telepathic thief. (Just kidding!) I’m not big on the powder blue and the knobs (I’ve always been hopelessly ol’fashioned and attached to the black’n’chrome look a’la Moog) but these are superficial complaints; everything can be customized. I am also not sure why it would need a third wheel…? Having said that, the full length ribbon and (especially!) the modulation joystick with three-axis recordable motion and the 16 slot mod matrix with its clear (and much better than the DM 12’s) resolution are an absolute dream.
I’m also a bit puzzled, though. Based on the feedback on your YT video and on this page and on all the synth sites, it seems quite clear that the vast majority of fans desire almost exactly the same features when it comes to an analog synthesizer, clearly embodied by your concept. Why is it, then, that seasoned manufacturers keep producing new designs that, while certainly lovely and good-sounding, consistently avoid implementing most of these features…?
Seriously nice concept and whatever you think of Behringer – they have the capability to make it a reality at an accessible price point (potentially !). Slight diversion I know – but very nice layout and super rendering (what did you use – solidworks ?). I wish you all the best with it, should it become a reality I’ll be one of the first in the queue to check it out !
Thank you! I’ve been thinking about what I would like to see in an analog poly for years, and this is the closest I could get in a realistic way.
No SolidWorks, just Blender. 🙂
The only thing that I would add to this project is a third audio oscillator per voice. Maybe of a different type from the two main ones. Digital/wavetable should also be interesting.
I guess the sub oscillator with selectable waveforms is kind of a 3rd oscillator, especially if it was tunable.
Digital oscillators, please. Along the lines of DSI. Wavetables, samples, Supersaws etc.
I agree that digital oscillators are cool, but that is another concept. 😉
It’s been suggested that the reason you don’t see any standard keyboards with poly aftertouch in modern synths (except Hydrasynth which only has 4 octaves), or even MIDI controllers where it would seem to be a natural fit, is that it is just too expensive. From your comments it looks like you considered cost in choosing components; can you give any details on how you’d make that keyboard happen? Maybe it’s just a chicken-or-egg situation where it can’t get cheaper until more synths have them.
I’m kind of done with one-knob-per-function in modern synths, except for pure analog / semi-modular ones with no patch saving, but those tend to require fewer anyway as they are simpler in design than this. It looks impressive and yeah theoretically you *could* tweak all that stuff in real time, but I think there are good ways to simplify panel layout without sacrificing tweakability (again see Hydrasynth, which basically copies ESQ-1/SQ-80 with modern improvements like a few actual “knobs” 😀 )
Yes, I’ve been conscious of the cost of components, and have more or less exclusively used things already in use or planned for release. The LED-collar encoders are from the suggested sequel of the Behringer BCR2000, the BCR32, that has (you guessed it) 32 LED encoders. The Positron has 64, so I don’t think that would be a deal-breaker in developing this synth.
The polyphonic aftertouch is from the planned CS-80 clone, the DS-80, and they’ve had a working prototype of that keybed ready since last year.
The main point of the user interface of the Positron is accessibility and speed. You should be able to use this synth on stage or in a studio and not having to dig through menus to find what you’re looking for. Also, ideally, you shouldn’t need a manual to get started making your own sounds. 🙂
Guitar strap pegs could take this one over the top. I know every poly synth lately has pegs but you just never get sick of them, you know? And they just look so good. Though they would add substantially to the overall weight. …you take the good with the bad I suppose.
Hmm, I think the Positron would be a little too big and heavy for guitar straps, since it’s got a full 5-octave keyboard.
Strap that big boy on and lug it onstage and the adrenaline will give you the strength to lift even a cs80. Besides anything less than five full octaves and our mighty muscles will make it seem too puny, am I right?!💪💪💪
Since you have no experience with building synths yourself and the costs involved in a synthconcept,it would have been better to get more information on how much it would costs to get something with these specs manufactured.
If you see the Deepmind 12 was +-800 euro when it got released,and with what it has on board,i’m guessing this Positron will reach 2000 euro and more before you get 1 in your studio.
Not many people have a budget like that spent on 1 synth.
And again cem3340 for vco’s, that is getting boring.
Nice design,it realy looks great.
But after the target price is known,i doubt 1/5 from the voters will actualy have the money to buy it.
And knowing that the RD-8 still has bugs,the RD-9 is way too late,also due to bugs,i wonder how team Uli will manage a project like this to be bug free.
It’s a bit presumptuous to assume that I have no experience in synth manufacturing. As it is, you happen to be right but was presumptuous none the less. 😛
I can’t say what the end price for a Positron would be – if it’s picked up by Behringer, we’d know soon enough I guess. I have discussed this design briefly with Uli, and although he wouldn’t officially commit to anything there seemed to be no particular concern with the amount of components used. Cost is also one of the reasons I picked the 3340 for the VCOs instead of more esoteric discrete designs. Yes, the 3340 has been used before, and yes, it might be perceived as bit boring but using ready-made chips for VCOs and filters greatly reduces the cost and will speed up production, which will also save on the cost. Anyway, most of the interesting stuff with analogue oscillators happens after the wave generating part, with sync, ring mod, FM and more.
Whatever happens, I’m pretty certain that for most other synth manufacturers the end price would most likely be double that of what Behringer’s would be – if not more.
Behringer was repeatedly criticized for only copying and not developing anything of his own. With this flagship synthesizer, Uli could improve its reputation as a synthesizer developer. Nobody could ignore the Positron 16 ;-)) Other than that, it’s a great concept and I would love to play and hear the positron! And I love the design, too
Thank you! Yes, I think this would be a big statement in the top tier of synths and a great flagship for Behringer. 🙂
I love, love love it, great work! I’m ready willing and able to buy this ASAP. If it could be 3k or under that would be amazing and by using the parts already avaiable, tweaking available firmware etc, I think it’s quite possible this could be a home run for everyone. Let it it going before i’m too old to buy toys!
Thanks, glad you like it! 🙂
Yeah, I’ve tried to reuse as many existing components as possible to keep the potential cost down, should it be developed. 💰
Brilliant! This would sound so beautiful and be a dream to program.
If it is going to have a sequencer though, why limit it to only 16 steps? I’ve never quite understood why some modern synths such as the minilogue implement great sequencer interfaces and then limit them to only 16 steps. I’m no synth architect, but would it not be simply a matter of a tidge more memory and perhaps a shift button to toggle between steps 1-16 and 17-32 and so on?
Thank you! Yes I guess there’s no technical reason to limit the step sequencer to 16 steps, but more of a user interface one. Ideally, we’d have 64 encoders for tweaking each step in real-time, but that wouldn’t fit of course. Having a ‘Page 2’ with 16 more steps would work, with the drawback of having a 3rd function per program button.
I hope you have good friends to Ulli Behringers Team. I voted for your Suggestion, because it would kick everything existing, incl. Andromeda into garbage! And it would show all competitors, that they are far behind in the meantime. This company is a good company, it makes all dreams of the Musicans around the World come true. And thats great!
Thank you! I do know some people in the Behringer company, including Uli, and they’re all talented and dedicated people. If anyone can make the Positron become real – and affordable to regular musicians, it’s them. 🙂
The “Positron 16” looks like a beast of a synth! I hope it become reality. The use classic 3340 VCO’s is definitely a good start. I also love the sub-octave idea ( -to add more “fatness”/ fullness ). It’s kind of funny. I’m currently in a similar situation. I’m hoping to get several of my synth designs put into production.
After casting a “YES” VOTE for the “Positron 16” I hope people will surf over to my page: https://creativetechnerds.jimdo.com/synth-project/ and take a look at my “Synth Project” designs ( -CASTING their VOTES for the ones they like most ). If enough people VOTE and let me know WHICH design ( s ) they like most -I’ll start a GoFundMe campaign to help raise the funds I will need to get this/ these synths into production.
I say there can never be enough Synths in the world! Hopefully, one day soon people will be able to purchase a “Positron 16” beast along with one of my “Synth Project” synths! CAST your VOTE today!
What about having two different osc per voice, one based on the classic 3340 and the other based on the newer SSI 2130. If the implementation of theire control and interaction would be feasable, maybe it would be interesting to see in development how that would be working and the outcome sonicwise. It’s possible that the difference in sound in the end would not justify the r&d and implementation. I guess one of them being discrete while the other one chip based would also be cool, but for 16 voices it seems too much of a gamble for some manufacturer to invest on it.
Yes, that sounds interesting. However, I went for the 3340 chips because they’re already in production for the Neutron etc and there’s a solution in place for blending the waveforms (again, in the Neutron). That said, I’m not married to the 3340 and any similarly featured and great-sounding chip would do – as long as it’s available at a decent price.